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Benzlerfahrer
Junior knallert
Indlæg: 14
Tilmeldt: lør 29. maj 2021 23:09
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Hello from Flanders

Indlæg af Benzlerfahrer »

Whatsup people!

My name is Jorn, I‘m from Flanders (Dutch speaking side of Belgium) and I own 3 Kreidlers.

A LF from 1972
A LH from 1974
And currently building a TM from 1976

Kreidler is my main brand and throughout the years I have become quite familiar with these Mokicks/Mopeds. I‘ve got a large base of connections to fall back in whenever I don‘t know how to solve a problem!
I‘m on the Dutch Kreidler forum wich holds a lot of information and a lot of experts are on there!
Maybe I will be able to provide the people driving with some information and adresses!

The real reason I joined this forum is because of a friend of mine. He‘s actually lived in DK for over 10 years and is fluently Danish speaking, only problem is that I‘m the more technical one.

We are currently busy with restoring his own DM50, wich he has imported to Belgium when he moved back here! I must say that I quite like this style of his mokick. The only thing that serves as a bit of a problem is that he‘s quite a big guy, and his DM50 isn‘t used to him not being 16 anymore!

The 2 shift motor doesn‘t provide him with enough power to drive along with us in these regions! Where DK is mainly flat, we do have more hills and when we got south some small „mountains“.

I will be looking to get some information on the way these „Knallerts“ are limited in power and torque. Especially wich options we have to increase his torque, Top speed is not that important. Getting 50KMH out of it would be great, but 45 with enough torque would be nicer of course.
The questions I have are;
-Is it possible to tune the 2 gear motor and if so-> how to?
-Are there other types of Suzuki motor that will fit under the DM50, to maybe have a 3 gear motor under it.

I will be asking these questions on the right page of course and don‘t expect them to be answered here 😁

I have already been over the forum for a bit, using google translate, but unfortunately suite some words are being wrongfully translated back to Dutch. So I hope to get soms more technical information in English, and maybe provide some information on Kreidler to whoever needs it.

I added pictures of my Kreidlers!

Thanks already for your time!

Billede[/img][/img]
Vedhæftede filer
CB1BA908-007B-4F5F-9B5D-3351C802A1B9.jpeg
CB1BA908-007B-4F5F-9B5D-3351C802A1B9.jpeg (225.34 KiB) Vist 1903 gange
DB7579BB-0145-408C-AB95-D1A369071512.jpeg
DB7579BB-0145-408C-AB95-D1A369071512.jpeg (136.13 KiB) Vist 1903 gange
61AA3D2E-B6FC-495E-B67A-F1A3C82AF6C4.jpeg
61AA3D2E-B6FC-495E-B67A-F1A3C82AF6C4.jpeg (253.79 KiB) Vist 1903 gange
kreidlerhansen
Moderator
Indlæg: 3924
Tilmeldt: man 31. maj 2010 23:44
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Re: Hello from Flanders

Indlæg af kreidlerhansen »

Hallo en welkom op ons kleine Forum - klein, in vergelejking met Martens forum. Ik ben Kreidlerbas op het nederlandse forum. Mooie Kreidlers!

If I recall correctly, two of the main restrictions in the DM50 engine are the exhaust and the cylinder's blowdown angle.

If you can find a spare cylinder and have the exhaust raised 3mm and the transfers just 1mm you should result in a little more oomph.

I don't recall the inlet timing but I'd leave it and rather find a way to fit a larger carburettor in the 14-16mm range though this will compromise the originality-aspect.

The exhaust is prone to clogging up, but if it's innards are clean it should suffice for a 40-45kph setup.

Be aware that the rear hub and spoke construction is a rather weak setup. Keep the spokes tightened correctly and change them if they start to rust.

Cheers!

/Jesper
Jesper Hansen

MC/Knallert
Kreidler Florett RS Elektronik 1977 ~ 'Gelbe Sau' (MC)
Moto Guzzi Nevada 750 i.e. 2007 (MC)
Suzuki FZ50 1995 ~ 'Moffi': Arvet fra min bedstefar

Det er fan'me ikke lakken, vi kører på!
Benzlerfahrer
Junior knallert
Indlæg: 14
Tilmeldt: lør 29. maj 2021 23:09
Kontakt:

Re: Hello from Flanders

Indlæg af Benzlerfahrer »

kreidlerhansen skrev: søn 30. maj 2021 08:50 Hallo en welkom op ons kleine Forum - klein, in vergelejking met Martens forum. Ik ben Kreidlerbas op het nederlandse forum. Mooie Kreidlers!

If I recall correctly, two of the main restrictions in the DM50 engine are the exhaust and the cylinder's blowdown angle.

If you can find a spare cylinder and have the exhaust raised 3mm and the transfers just 1mm you should result in a little more oomph.

I don't recall the inlet timing but I'd leave it and rather find a way to fit a larger carburettor in the 14-16mm range though this will compromise the originality-aspect.

The exhaust is prone to clogging up, but if it's innards are clean it should suffice for a 40-45kph setup.

Be aware that the rear hub and spoke construction is a rather weak setup. Keep the spokes tightened correctly and change them if they start to rust.

Cheers!

/Jesper
Hello and thanx!!

This is actually already a lot of info I didn’t have. I was already a bit sceptical about the construction being sufficient for a stronger setup. The DM50 is a beautiful mokick, but due to safety restrictions back then they did do a good job of limiting the DM50. I spoke with my friend about it and it might be just better that he leaves is DM50 in original state and just buys a Puch or another Suzuki to have as a touring thing. He’s very lucky to still own his first knallert, so better not mess it up 😁

I will be returning to the forum, we have some wild plans on doing a couple of days of riding in DK next year. Would be nice to meet up with some people perhaps.

My friend keeps telling me that police in DK is very strict on Knallers that go harder then 45. He said we’d might even lose our motors.

I don’t know if this is true, because my all of my Kreidlers ride harder then 45. And I like em that way hha
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Kai
Super Knallert-Rocker
Indlæg: 1967
Tilmeldt: fre 1. feb 2008 11:10
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Re: Hello from Flanders

Indlæg af Kai »

Welcome to knallert forum :)

The DM50 engine is, as far as i know, developed from the engine on the little JR50 motocrosser for kids. The JR50 has an automatic clutch and a different cylinder/head and carburetor, but the DM50 engine is 99% the same, even the JR50 has the same two speed gearbox (it's restricted to Neutral and first gear)

i agree with Jesper that the DM50 cylinder is very heavily restricted, especially in blowdown angle and exhaust system (the header pipe is double walled and very narrow inside in diameter.

A common trick here in Denmark was to fit 2 or even 3 extra gaskets under the cylinder to raise the cylinder, remove the rubber "snorkel" on the backside of the airfilter box (it restricts the airflow into the airfilter box) and jet accordingly to make it run clean and strong on top. It still looks road legal but topspeed is around 45-47 km/t but it will still struggle on long steep hills.

I have tuned a couple of them a long time ago, and it is possible to get them run a lot faster.
Raise the exhaustport 3mm and widen it 3mm on each side. Remove the intake manifold by cutting from both sides to get to the two secure bolts and pull the intake from the cylinder. The restriction (a steel tube) will come out too as it is a part of the intake manifold.

DO NOT ! drill the intake hole in the cylinder out to full size ! (about 17mm) many have tried and you WILL loose power. Instead you leave a small edge on top and on the bottom of the intake hole (about 1.5mm, it's ok to make a nice angle on them to help the flow ) and widen the intake gradually from round hole to a rectangled shape 14-15mm high and 19-20mm wide inside the cylinderbore ( take care that you dont make the intake wider than the piston skirt on the intake side, the piston needs at least 2mm on each side to seal proberly) you may need to shorten the intake side of the piston, but give it a try first without shortening the piston.
Fit an 17mm intake and Bing carburetor for Puch Monza or similar and a suitable airfilter and keep the 2 or 3 gaskets under the cylinder.
28mm exhaust header pipe for Puch will fit the cylinder, but the exhaust will sit at an ackward upwards angle, it is possible to bend the header if you heat it with oxy/acetylene and bend it into a shape that will fit the bike.
I had great succes with the old Proma exhausts, move the exhaust forwards or backwards on the header pipe until it pulls strong in 2'nd gear by trial and error, and then cut the header pipe so it just fits inside the Proma exhaust and is secured by a steel clamp.

It should run strong and around 70km/h.

Beware of the weak rear wheel !! :)
Hvis ikke du har tid til at lave det rigtigt, hvornår har du så tid til at lave det om ?
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Elitesoldaten
Stor knallert
Indlæg: 166
Tilmeldt: tors 20. maj 2021 12:47
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Re: Hello from Flanders

Indlæg af Elitesoldaten »

Welcome!
The brave don't live forever... the cautious don't live at all.
Benzlerfahrer
Junior knallert
Indlæg: 14
Tilmeldt: lør 29. maj 2021 23:09
Kontakt:

Re: Hello from Flanders

Indlæg af Benzlerfahrer »

Kai skrev: søn 30. maj 2021 21:07 Welcome to knallert forum :)

The DM50 engine is, as far as i know, developed from the engine on the little JR50 motocrosser for kids. The JR50 has an automatic clutch and a different cylinder/head and carburetor, but the DM50 engine is 99% the same, even the JR50 has the same two speed gearbox (it's restricted to Neutral and first gear)

i agree with Jesper that the DM50 cylinder is very heavily restricted, especially in blowdown angle and exhaust system (the header pipe is double walled and very narrow inside in diameter.

A common trick here in Denmark was to fit 2 or even 3 extra gaskets under the cylinder to raise the cylinder, remove the rubber "snorkel" on the backside of the airfilter box (it restricts the airflow into the airfilter box) and jet accordingly to make it run clean and strong on top. It still looks road legal but topspeed is around 45-47 km/t but it will still struggle on long steep hills.

I have tuned a couple of them a long time ago, and it is possible to get them run a lot faster.
Raise the exhaustport 3mm and widen it 3mm on each side. Remove the intake manifold by cutting from both sides to get to the two secure bolts and pull the intake from the cylinder. The restriction (a steel tube) will come out too as it is a part of the intake manifold.

DO NOT ! drill the intake hole in the cylinder out to full size ! (about 17mm) many have tried and you WILL loose power. Instead you leave a small edge on top and on the bottom of the intake hole (about 1.5mm, it's ok to make a nice angle on them to help the flow ) and widen the intake gradually from round hole to a rectangled shape 14-15mm high and 19-20mm wide inside the cylinderbore ( take care that you dont make the intake wider than the piston skirt on the intake side, the piston needs at least 2mm on each side to seal proberly) you may need to shorten the intake side of the piston, but give it a try first without shortening the piston.
Fit an 17mm intake and Bing carburetor for Puch Monza or similar and a suitable airfilter and keep the 2 or 3 gaskets under the cylinder.
28mm exhaust header pipe for Puch will fit the cylinder, but the exhaust will sit at an ackward upwards angle, it is possible to bend the header if you heat it with oxy/acetylene and bend it into a shape that will fit the bike.
I had great succes with the old Proma exhausts, move the exhaust forwards or backwards on the header pipe until it pulls strong in 2'nd gear by trial and error, and then cut the header pipe so it just fits inside the Proma exhaust and is secured by a steel clamp.

It should run strong and around 70km/h.

Beware of the weak rear wheel !! :)
Thank you very much!

I’ve passed down the info! I think it’s safe to say at this stage the construction in the rear is going to be more of a problem than following the above instructions!
My friend weighs about 100 kilos and is a pretty big guy, I doubt that it would be safe to tune the DM50 this way.

At this point we’re a bit afraid that he’s going to put all the money and time (2 things wich commonly go hand in hand :lol: ) and afterwards en up with damage to the construction because of all the force it can’t handle.
I think it’s going to be a good idea to raise the cylinder with gaskets and remove the airfilter box, probably add a powerfilter, just to make sure no dirt gets sucked into the cylinder. This will be a cheap modification and will ensure a good drive when he’s going to drive around the church tower (it’s a Dutch saying wich doesnt translate well 🤣; means to keep it close to home).

He’s better off investing a bit more money into a stronger moped, that doesn’t need modification. He could use this one to go on longer trips. And the DM50 then stays original.
I recomended something along the suzuki ER21 or TS line. They are built a bit bigger and come with more gears. It should easily take him where ever he wants!
Btw, it’s for sure the only DM50 in Belgium!

Tough being a giant 😅 haha.
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